|
shadow Administrator Posts: 20
12/31/2015
|
It used to be that getting a book graded almost always meant that you would get above "guide" for it...
Everybody was jumping on the "speculation wagon"...
It's not so true anymore.
If your book grades at 9.6 or better, you're apt to get over guide for it because they really are that rare...Having it professionally graded, in some people's minds, is the "seal of approval" that "Yes, my book really is a 9.6."...
Anything 9.4 or below, is just as likely to get you the same price for a "graded" as you can for a "raw"...All slabbing does is give the buyer a little more comfort that it really is a 4.5...and not just the seller saying it is...
Our graded prices have long been based on a formula created from market data. Since not every issue in every grade has been slabbed and then sold and then recorded...it obviously is just a "best guess" formula based on common factors.
What is causing some confusion...is that on some of our titles...after the last upgrade...the "graded" column is pulling from the wrong formula...making it look like the graded are worth less than the raw...
It's not happening on all titles, and we still haven't found the common denominator on the ones that are pulling wrong.
Rule of thumb: Your comic is worth at least "raw" prices...graded or not. If it's graded and a 9.6 or greater, you can probably get over guide for it...
Staff are working to remove the confusion and the price survey team is constantly watching market reports for any changes...
My advice?....Go read a comic and relax 
|
|
|
+4
link
|
|
Defiant1 Posts: 720
10/10/2021
|
Biddle7819 wrote:
And furthermore you cannot enjoy the actual comic any longer, you get to look at the front and back cover. I got in to comics to read the things, if I wanted a nice picture to look at I'd get a Picasso print!
I agree 100%.
My first hobby at about age 8 was stamp collecting. I first went through the house soaking stamps off of old envelopes and putting them in a stamp album.
I was having fun. Then I started vising a stamp and coin store at the local mall and I could get things I'd never see otherwise.
One day I'm at the stamp & coin store and an older collector told me I was doing it wrong.
He said I should be buying uncancelled stamps and I should be using expensive plastic sleeves to slide the stamps into.
He said that is what real stamp collectors do.
I realized that what I was doing for fun wasn't recognized by the community as "real" stamp collecting.
I never bought another stamp.
I closed my stamp collection album and look at it maybe once in 25 years.
When CGC started taking off, I realized it was the comics hobby going the same direction.
It's not something intended to be fun, it's a hobby to stroke some obsessive compulsive person ego and value their comics more.
The first time I saw someone advertising a CGC comic for sale, I clicked the link to a huge high quality image of a graded comic they were selling.
The case was scratched and it dawned upon me... why would I want a perfect comic in a scratched case.
It defeats the purpose on having a nice comic (that you can't read) in a case that has a scratch that's an eye sore.
I realized that there needs to be someone to grade the cases if they were going to be permanently encased in a scratched case.
I got into an argument online as to whether the case was scratched.
I ignore what CGC is doing.
I think it's a scam.
I've seen 9.6's with spine indentions and a color break. I've seen 9.4's that look perfect.
I don't like writing on covers, even date codes. CGC disregards it.
My criteria for liking comics has nothing to do with the CGC standards.
I don't care about slightly blunted corners. That's an idiotic grading criteria that migrated over from the sports card grading.
There's very little to look at on a sports cards, so someone just decided one day that it was relevant for comic collecting.
What used to be classified as Pristine Mint, is now a CGC 10.0, but the Overstreet price guide never listed prices for Pristine Mint.
Overstreet listed prices for Near Mint. That was the target for an acceptable comic. If you got VF on an old comic, you were overjoyed.
If you got a Fine on an old comic, you were pleased.
I now don't waste time buying comics that the CGC snobs are going to turn their nose up to.
I buy rarities, obscure comics, novelty comics, and keys when priced reasonably.
I buy stuff that may not appeal to everyone, but there is someone who will appreciate it enough that it won't need to be a CGC 9.8 to sell.
I do my own thing and I don't care what the CGC is doing.
A CGC case typically makes me uninterested in buying a seller's comic.
When I traded for an Amazing Fantasy #15 in 1994, the first thing I did was read it. I had $300 in it. It was a $900 copy. Now it's probably worth $25,000. If I want to read it... I will.
Collecting is pointless if you can't appreciate the stuff for what it is.
If you are buying encased comics, you might as well be collecting photographs of comics and calling that your hobby.
The difference between me collecting at age 8 and me collecting now, is that I don't care what or why other collectors do what they do.
I have opinions, but I don't really care.
edited by Defiant1 on 10/10/2021
|
|
|
+4
link
|
|
Biddle7819 Posts: 174
10/10/2021
|
And furthermore you cannot enjoy the actual comic any longer, you get to look at the front and back cover. I got in to comics to read the things, if I wanted a nice picture to look at I'd get a Picasso print!
|
|
|
+3
link
|
|
expander Posts: 241
1/6/2016
|
+1
This is the reason why I very rarely buy slabs at all. I'm all for finding a great buy at a show or convention but I always worry that I'll find some defect after the fact.
As to price differences these days our smart phones are rarley out of reach especially when we're out and about so, a quick google search at a dealers table can give you a good idea whats a fair price or whether you're being gouged or not price wise.
|
|
|
+3
link
|
|
Jc102602 Posts: 3
6/3/2018
|
Its possible that we might not be debating the same thing, but I'm not contending the existence of outliers. I'm challenging the accuracy of the reported values that I assume are supposed to be a reflection of the bell curve. It is possible that if some unlucky soul were to compile ALL market data and perform a comprehensive analysis then we may discover that the standard deviation is much larger than anyone would've anticipated. In the event of this "wild, wild west" scenario, we may be forced to challenge the whole enterprise of formal price guides in general. Regardless, I believe that a workable deviation exists and would have to conclude that most people do as well, otherwise we wouldn't be using/relying on these guides.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
|
Theoldcollector Posts: 213
6/29/2021
|
If it's a comic that is very rare like Action Comics #1 just a single page from that book can go for thousands of dollars so a graded 1.0 of a very rare or sought after book can fetch a very high price if it's rare and wanted by collectors. The comic market is high right now but also just because someone is asking 19k for something doesn't mean it's worth 19k. Some people on sites like EBay will do that as kind of a place holder when the book is for sale in a store and posted up on Ebay for a high dollar amount. They then can receive offers from buyers via EBay and still have it on display and up for sell in their actual store at the same time. Use the graded prices here on this site to give you a starting point but because the market is crazy right now the price of some stuff is changing daily so you will have to research sold listings and not just on EBay but other sites and stores as well. There are multiple auction sites just dedicated to comics. This site does a good job trying to keep the prices updated for their current values and members make suggestions on price changes as well to help. So this is a great place to get a feel on prices.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
pthomas2010 Posts: 116
10/9/2021
|
brianpeppers wrote:
Professional grading is a big scam for the most part, and we all just play along with it because we want more money for our books.
I think it is a good premise, but since there is no central authority that can actually certify that a grader has gone through a universally accepted curriculum and is subject to audits for consistency, how are CGC graders any more expert than a collector or dealer who has been grading comics for selling or to buy for many years. The only advantage the CGC grader has is that he knows how CGC wants books graded. By the way, CGC opened the doors and proclaimed themselves the authority of comic grading. They answer to nobody. Doesn't matter how consistent the grading is or if they contradict themselves. There are no fines or penalties to the company regardless of quality, and nobody to monitor them anyway. In actuality, the only difference between a graded comic and a raw one is the pretty, official-looking plastic tomb with a fractional number out of 10 showing how close to perfect it is. I think it's ridiculous that the values get obscene just from the act of being put in the case. If the grader says it is a 9.8 copy, hasn't it been all along? Why does sealing it up make it 10-20 times more than when it was raw in some cases. Also, if a grader leaves CGC and goes to work in a comic shop, does that mean all his grades command the same prices as the slabbed CGC copies, or does he lose the ability to grade accurately when he leaves? The amount of money changing hands for some comics these days really highlights how screwed up our hobby is, and that we deserve fairness and consistency buying and selling our comics. Every day there is at least 1 sale that is the equivalent of a nice car for a 32-page kid's book made of newspaper, and we have allowed a grading company to manipulate the market however they want to.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
genuine_article_comics Posts: 44
1/10/2016
|
Slabbed vs Raw is 100% about buyer confidence. That's why, for me, slabbed books don't really mean that much. I have confidence in my own ability to accurately grade a book. I'm very much less concerned with the difference between a 9.8 and 9.6 than I am with a NM and VF. If you're in this hobby solely for investment and concerned about Returns On Investments (ROI) then slabbed is the way to go. For me, investment is a factor, but it's certainly not the biggest or main reason I collect. I trust my abilities to grade a book accurately and will not pay a premium for slabbed books graded by a third party.
edited by genuine_article_comics on 1/10/2016
edited by genuine_article_comics on 1/10/2016
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
kporourke97 Posts: 2
2/27/2016
|
"Rule of thumb: Your comic is worth at least "raw" prices...graded or not. If it's graded and a 9.6 or greater, you can probably get over guide for it..."
I am new at this site, and trying to sell comics for the first time.
I have over 10,000 comics, mostly from 80s.
If a comic is worth the raw price, I am noticing a lot of comics for sale on this site are priced much less than the raw price.
ACTION comics #595 as an example. Raw price for 9.4 is $12, but there are 5 comics listed at 9.4 grade for $3.75 or less.
Just trying to learn how to properly price the comics I list for sale on this site.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
Guest
10/26/2016
|
Newbie here on the site, but have been collecting for a while. I've got a handful of graded books--mostly keys and signed keys. Went that route to ensure what I was buying. After that I think it's all a matter of personal preference. I'm not slabbing everything, but will do so to preserve certain books. If i want to re read later, i can just buy a reader copy.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
GinoDiCaprio Posts: 19
9/3/2017
|
To be honest, I do not rely on grading prices, and I collect books, not for investment but because I enjoy them. Yes, I did and still do buy multiple copies if I feel the art or the story is fantastic. Sometimes if it is an independent company that I know only has a small print run and very rare with a good story or art, I would support them by buying multiple copies.
Now for grading, I do not rely on other as in GCC since I have noticed on some of their gradings I do not always agree with. And at shows, the problem is too many people open a sealed copy and put their fingers on it, and the grad can change automatically if they don't purchase it and put it back.
I find the Price Guide focuses on the wrong things, for example, a mainstream company that has a print run of over 300,000 copies and then sells because of a demand went from $2 to $800, but a comic that came out at the same time that only has less then 3,000 print goes from $2 to $3. Sorry in my book "demand" or "NOT', that lower print run is worth $100.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
rixmaxx Posts: 463
9/4/2017
|
GinoDiCaprio wrote:
To be honest, I do not rely on grading prices, and I collect books, not for investment but because I enjoy them. Yes, I did and still do buy multiple copies if I feel the art or the story is fantastic. Sometimes if it is an independent company that I know only has a small print run and very rare with a good story or art, I would support them by buying multiple copies.
Now for grading, I do not rely on other as in GCC since I have noticed on some of their gradings I do not always agree with. And at shows, the problem is too many people open a sealed copy and put their fingers on it, and the grad can change automatically if they don't purchase it and put it back.
I find the Price Guide focuses on the wrong things, for example, a mainstream company that has a print run of over 300,000 copies and then sells because of a demand went from $2 to $800, but a comic that came out at the same time that only has less then 3,000 print goes from $2 to $3. Sorry in my book "demand" or "NOT', that lower print run is worth $100.
But how is it "worth" $100 if nobody wants it?
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
Oxbladder Posts: 487
9/5/2017
|
GinoDiCaprio wrote:
I find the Price Guide focuses on the wrong things, for example, a mainstream company that has a print run of over 300,000 copies and then sells because of a demand went from $2 to $800, but a comic that came out at the same time that only has less then 3,000 print goes from $2 to $3. Sorry in my book "demand" or "NOT', that lower print run is worth $100.
The wrong thing would be pricing any book with no demand and a "low" print run at an arbitrary price. There are loads of books that have "low" print runs when compared to the big two but that doesn't mean they those print runs are actually low. Take The Walking Dead #1. There were something like 7500 of those printed. Back then that would have been a really good print run for a smaller publisher and for a genre that hadn't experienced a comeback yet. Now though that 7500 usually cannot meet demand. There were likely a couple of hundred other books that had print runs smaller when TWD #1 came out but are not worth more than cover, if that, because there is no demand for them.
Demand dictates prices not how many were printed or how many surviving copies exist. You could have a book that had a print run in the thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands and still go up in price steadily because the supply never meets demand and, at the same time, have a book that only had a few hundred or few thousand print run be worth no more than cover because there simply is no demand for that book.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
pthomas2010 Posts: 116
5/16/2018
|
What ox is saying is that you can say a book is "worth" whatever you want, but the price it sells at determines the actual value. Rarity of an item doesn't matter if nobody wants it. There must be a paying customer.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
