|
brucebreeding38@gmail.com Posts: 2
3/31/2016
|
I am puzzled at why the Guide does not seem to adjust to what is actually happening in the marketplace. For example, the Golden Record Reprint of Amazing Spider-man #1 is routinely trading hands on EBAY at hundreds of dollars over guide value. For example, there are numerous sales of CGC 7.0 Graded books trading hands on EBAY for prices in the $350 to $450 range (one sold for $910) even though the guide says the issue is only worth $57. You couldn't begin to purchase one of those issues for $57, so shouldn't the guide be revised to reflect that? Someone who doesn't know what the market is paying for these books and instead is relying on the guide to set prices would really short change themselves. Could someone shed light on why the guide is apparently so undervalued on that issue.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
genuinearticlecomics Posts: 19
4/1/2016
|
I'm with you on this!
I don't know for sure but I'd guess that comicspriceguide.com and Overstreet do not regard eBay as the sole/main indicator on market value. Personally, I tend to lean more toward eBay "sold listings" as accurately capturing true market value as it is a global auction house. There is also Atomic Avenue to consider.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
Oxbladder Posts: 487
4/2/2016
|
Guide, any guide, will never, ever match actual market values. It is just not possible to track every sale of every book every where in the world and even if they could the guide price would STILL only be an average of those vales.
Guides are meant to put you in the ball park. Where your seat in that park is going to be is going to vary widely. As such it is incumbent on a collector to do their homework if they want to buy or sell a book for the best price.
Think about it. There are thousands upon thousands of titles and issues have been released over the decades. Just how are guides and their small crew of employees supposed to track all of these titles/issues and their transactions?
Heck I find eBay prices often not realistic either because you are often dealing with incredibly impulsive people with too much money and very little rational thought.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
|
Laroo42 Posts: 104
4/4/2016
|
Buy low, sell high! If someone is using a guide that undervalues a book, buy it! If you can sell a book on eBay for well over guide because as Oxbladder put it, "people with too much money and very little rational thought.", then DO IT!
It's a game of supply and demand. Let's hope to be on the good end!
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/5/2016
|
When I priced comics for a used bookstore chain location 25 years ago, I only knew Overstreet and that's all I had. Then came Wizard. Using the two, I could come up with a range. But since it wasn't my store, I couldn't work with interested buyers to come to a better agreed on price. There wasn't the web then like there is now. The only other option I could have done was to call comic book stores in a metropolitan area to get a more accurate price range for real collectible issues. But that was logistically impossible.
Now, we can use Overstreet, comicspriceguide, and other websites to get a better picture. If you really want to focus on an issue's collectability and good price for it, along with using these tools, email some stores. There are some on line that will give a free quote as well. But when it comes down to it, the value of a book is what someone will pay for it. But be completely honest about the condition of the book. If a collector buys your book and knows exactly what he is getting, and you feel good about what you are selling it for (a fair price), then everyone should be happy. My moral compass guides me to not get "the most that I can possibly get" because I don't like to take advantage of people. Narcissistic sociopaths don't have empathy for others, so they will take anyone for everything they are worth.
edited by erichey on 4/5/2016
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
Oxbladder Posts: 487
4/7/2016
|
It's not about being a narcissistic sociopath at all. It is about not leaving money on the table. eBay and much of the online world has created a lack of patience and as such people often will be very impulsive and jump when the rest of the marketplace says jump and spend more than they should. If people want to dump cash on you then why would you refuse? I purchased a NYX #3 for $20. Then I got it pressed and graded and offered it at $350 CAD which was the going rate at the time for a graded 9.8. I don't, and neither does the buyer, feel that they were soaked.
As far as I am concerned if people want to (sometimes needlessly) throw cash around that is their business and, if I have what they want, I am going to try and get fair market value for the item(s). If I was running a brick and mortar store I would most definitely be selling at as close to market value as possible. In this neck of the woods that often means selling for more than the market likes to purchase them. IS that soaking? Nope and do you want to know why? Most of the people that are asking for a bargain are not putting the book in their collection. Those folks tend not to argue price. Most of them are trying to get the book at the cheapest price possible so they can turn around and flip it on eBay.
So I actually have very little sympathy for collectors. Whatever mess they complain about they are often the ones to blame (prices, number of variants, etc are all on the heads of collectors).
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
CapnDoug Administrator Posts: 151
4/7/2016
|
Oxbladder wrote:
It's not about being a narcissistic sociopath at all. It is about not leaving money on the table. eBay and much of the online world has created a lack of patience and as such people often will be very impulsive and jump when the rest of the marketplace says jump and spend more than they should. If people want to dump cash on you then why would you refuse? I purchased a NYX #3 for $20. Then I got it pressed and graded and offered it at $350 CAD which was the going rate at the time for a graded 9.8. I don't, and neither does the buyer, feel that they were soaked.
As far as I am concerned if people want to (sometimes needlessly) throw cash around that is their business and, if I have what they want, I am going to try and get fair market value for the item(s). If I was running a brick and mortar store I would most definitely be selling at as close to market value as possible. In this neck of the woods that often means selling for more than the market likes to purchase them. IS that soaking? Nope and do you want to know why? Most of the people that are asking for a bargain are not putting the book in their collection. Those folks tend not to argue price. Most of them are trying to get the book at the cheapest price possible so they can turn around and flip it on eBay.
So I actually have very little sympathy for collectors. Whatever mess they complain about they are often the ones to blame (prices, number of variants, etc are all on the heads of collectors).
That's very well said, Ox. I just keep repeating the mantra that "Everything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it." If you don't like the price, sometimes you can negotiate, but you are also perfectly able to pass on the issue. I know I've paid more than guide price for some issues that I have been looking for but I can't claim that I was ripped off. I was free to pass on the comic. But, I was also needing those issues and was willing to pay a bit more. I also could have probably negotiated a lower price, but I didn't.
It's the responsibility of both parties to make sure that they get a deal that works for them. If one person doesn't like the deal, walk away. That's all you can say. If someone is willing to pay 3 or 4 times guide price in speculation, then that's up to them.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/7/2016
|
Oxbladder wrote:
It's not about being a narcissistic sociopath at all. It is about not leaving money on the table. eBay and much of the online world has created a lack of patience and as such people often will be very impulsive and jump when the rest of the marketplace says jump and spend more than they should. If people want to dump cash on you then why would you refuse? I purchased a NYX #3 for $20. Then I got it pressed and graded and offered it at $350 CAD which was the going rate at the time for a graded 9.8. I don't, and neither does the buyer, feel that they were soaked.
As far as I am concerned if people want to (sometimes needlessly) throw cash around that is their business and, if I have what they want, I am going to try and get fair market value for the item(s). If I was running a brick and mortar store I would most definitely be selling at as close to market value as possible. In this neck of the woods that often means selling for more than the market likes to purchase them. IS that soaking? Nope and do you want to know why? Most of the people that are asking for a bargain are not putting the book in their collection. Those folks tend not to argue price. Most of them are trying to get the book at the cheapest price possible so they can turn around and flip it on eBay.
So I actually have very little sympathy for collectors. Whatever mess they complain about they are often the ones to blame (prices, number of variants, etc are all on the heads of collectors).
I'm not referring to the average collector or investor. There are people out there that are not honest and will take advantage of other people. That is a sociopath. And it's true for whatever business is doing that. For example, a price gouger who uses the opportunity of a gas shortage to jack up prices and hurt the people who need the commodity to survive as well as the other local businesses. Or someone who sells a knock-off watch or handbag. Or a stock trader that artificially inflates the value. That is stealing, no matter how you parse it. In my opinion Randian objectivism is way too popular at the moment. I'm advising the OP not to be that kind of book investor or collector. Be honest. That's the best thing for all of us who want to get the fairest price for our purchases and sells. I hope you can agree with me on that. Please correct me, but how I am reading your response, as well as CapnDoug, is that you are most interested in getting the highest price you can. I am okay with that as long as the buyer is fully aware of what he/she is buying (e.g. condition). And CapnDoug admits that he has paid a higher price than current market for a book he needs. That's his choice to make. But I'm pretty darn sure that whatever he paid for that book, it better be exactly what he was lead to believe it was.
edited by erichey on 4/7/2016
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
CapnDoug Administrator Posts: 151
4/8/2016
|
erichey wrote:
Oxbladder wrote:
It's not about being a narcissistic sociopath at all. It is about not leaving money on the table. eBay and much of the online world has created a lack of patience and as such people often will be very impulsive and jump when the rest of the marketplace says jump and spend more than they should. If people want to dump cash on you then why would you refuse? I purchased a NYX #3 for $20. Then I got it pressed and graded and offered it at $350 CAD which was the going rate at the time for a graded 9.8. I don't, and neither does the buyer, feel that they were soaked.
As far as I am concerned if people want to (sometimes needlessly) throw cash around that is their business and, if I have what they want, I am going to try and get fair market value for the item(s). If I was running a brick and mortar store I would most definitely be selling at as close to market value as possible. In this neck of the woods that often means selling for more than the market likes to purchase them. IS that soaking? Nope and do you want to know why? Most of the people that are asking for a bargain are not putting the book in their collection. Those folks tend not to argue price. Most of them are trying to get the book at the cheapest price possible so they can turn around and flip it on eBay.
So I actually have very little sympathy for collectors. Whatever mess they complain about they are often the ones to blame (prices, number of variants, etc are all on the heads of collectors).
I'm not referring to the average collector or investor. There are people out there that are not honest and will take advantage of other people. That is a sociopath. And it's true for whatever business is doing that. For example, a price gouger who uses the opportunity of a gas shortage to jack up prices and hurt the people who need the commodity to survive as well as the other local businesses. Or someone who sells a knock-off watch or handbag. Or a stock trader that artificially inflates the value. That is stealing, no matter how you parse it. In my opinion Randian objectivism is way too popular at the moment. I'm advising the OP not to be that kind of book investor or collector. Be honest. That's the best thing for all of us who want to get the fairest price for our purchases and sells. I hope you can agree with me on that. Please correct me, but how I am reading your response, as well as CapnDoug, is that you are most interested in getting the highest price you can. I am okay with that as long as the buyer is fully aware of what he/she is buying (e.g. condition). And CapnDoug admits that he has paid a higher price than current market for a book he needs. That's his choice to make. But I'm pretty darn sure that whatever he paid for that book, it better be exactly what he was lead to believe it was.
edited by erichey on 4/7/2016
One thing that seems to be ignored is that there are more than just the one issue for sale. There are multiple copies of most issues for sale here and on eBay, particularly when the more modern issues are concerned. As a result, you are able to compare prices and in most cases, the most expensive one will not be the one bought. We are not talking about people abusing a monopoly, or an oligarchy that is price fixing.
And the issues I over paid for were mostly old issues that I bought at a convention or similar venue. In one case I thought that the book would grade at about a 5 or 5.5 and paid a reasonable price for that. But I missed a flaw and it is probably 3.5 at best. Others were purchased where I thought the guide price would be far higher than it actually was. But, in both cases, that was on me. I missed something and overpaid as a result.
I also wonder why the onus seems to be entirely on the seller. I have had people who try and give me massive lowball offers on some of the things I try to sell, but the customer would not be called a sociopath. I know that if someone is asking for $1000 and I would not want to pay over $300, I just say "I'm not even going to make you an offer, since I don't want to be insulting." If I wouldn't pay 60% of the asking price, I don't think it's right to make that offer.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
wchever Posts: 44
4/8/2016
|
In 2014, my daughter decided she didn't want to attend SF State after all. I decided that I would sell my place and get a place near a community college she wanted to attend. I went on Amazon to buy furniture that would fit this condo. I found a nice modular leather set that fit the living room perfectly and would supply plenty of seating. The price was $5,2999. I read the description, did a search on the manufacturer, and found the exact same set, on Amazon, for $3,000 less!
If people aren't going to do due diligence, what can you do?
The worst part is, I remember arguing with a guy on CompuServe in 1994 who insisted there was no such thing as price gouging because in a capitalist society it's "whatever the market will bear."
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/8/2016
|
CapnDoug wrote:
One thing that seems to be ignored is that there are more than just the one issue for sale. There are multiple copies of most issues for sale here and on eBay, particularly when the more modern issues are concerned. As a result, you are able to compare prices and in most cases, the most expensive one will not be the one bought. We are not talking about people abusing a monopoly, or an oligarchy that is price fixing.
And the issues I over paid for were mostly old issues that I bought at a convention or similar venue. In one case I thought that the book would grade at about a 5 or 5.5 and paid a reasonable price for that. But I missed a flaw and it is probably 3.5 at best. Others were purchased where I thought the guide price would be far higher than it actually was. But, in both cases, that was on me. I missed something and overpaid as a result.
I also wonder why the onus seems to be entirely on the seller. I have had people who try and give me massive lowball offers on some of the things I try to sell, but the customer would not be called a sociopath. I know that if someone is asking for $1000 and I would not want to pay over $300, I just say "I'm not even going to make you an offer, since I don't want to be insulting." If I wouldn't pay 60% of the asking price, I don't think it's right to make that offer.
I believe it can happen on both sides. Most people have an innate sense of wrongness when someone is trying to take advantage of another person's ignorance or weakness. It's the psychological trait of empathy. When someone lacks the ability to empathize, we call that sociopathy. To give you an example of when a buyer should be called out on being that would be when some family just lost their grandmother and in her estate is a pedigree collection from her late husband. The family doesn't have any idea what the worth of that collection could be, they just want to sell everything and get on with their lives. Along comes a "shrewd" collector who recognizes its true possible value. But because he is so interested in getting the best deal he offers to take it off their hands for a mere fraction of its worth. He then goes and sells the collection and makes thousands of dollars. I hope we can all agree that is completely immoral.
The point I've been trying to make is we should be honest. Especially everyone on here because we are part of a community. We love comics. The artwork, stories, mythology, as well as the excitement of collecting and having something that is valuable. I just wanted to impress on the OP that it is important to be honest in your dealings. Be upfront about what you are selling. Show compassion for someone who may not appreciate the value of what they have. And don't lie or gouge. Like wchever's post points out, the sentiment of "whatever the market will bear" doesn't remove our responsibility to be fair and honest.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
CapnDoug Administrator Posts: 151
4/8/2016
|
erichey wrote:
CapnDoug wrote:
One thing that seems to be ignored is that there are more than just the one issue for sale. There are multiple copies of most issues for sale here and on eBay, particularly when the more modern issues are concerned. As a result, you are able to compare prices and in most cases, the most expensive one will not be the one bought. We are not talking about people abusing a monopoly, or an oligarchy that is price fixing.
And the issues I over paid for were mostly old issues that I bought at a convention or similar venue. In one case I thought that the book would grade at about a 5 or 5.5 and paid a reasonable price for that. But I missed a flaw and it is probably 3.5 at best. Others were purchased where I thought the guide price would be far higher than it actually was. But, in both cases, that was on me. I missed something and overpaid as a result.
I also wonder why the onus seems to be entirely on the seller. I have had people who try and give me massive lowball offers on some of the things I try to sell, but the customer would not be called a sociopath. I know that if someone is asking for $1000 and I would not want to pay over $300, I just say "I'm not even going to make you an offer, since I don't want to be insulting." If I wouldn't pay 60% of the asking price, I don't think it's right to make that offer.
I believe it can happen on both sides. Most people have an innate sense of wrongness when someone is trying to take advantage of another person's ignorance or weakness. It's the psychological trait of empathy. When someone lacks the ability to empathize, we call that sociopathy. To give you an example of when a buyer should be called out on being that would be when some family just lost their grandmother and in her estate is a pedigree collection from her late husband. The family doesn't have any idea what the worth of that collection could be, they just want to sell everything and get on with their lives. Along comes a "shrewd" collector who recognizes its true possible value. But because he is so interested in getting the best deal he offers to take it off their hands for a mere fraction of its worth. He then goes and sells the collection and makes thousands of dollars. I hope we can all agree that is completely immoral.
The point I've been trying to make is we should be honest. Especially everyone on here because we are part of a community. We love comics. The artwork, stories, mythology, as well as the excitement of collecting and having something that is valuable. I just wanted to impress on the OP that it is important to be honest in your dealings. Be upfront about what you are selling. Show compassion for someone who may not appreciate the value of what they have. And don't lie or gouge. Like wchever's post points out, the sentiment of "whatever the market will bear" doesn't remove our responsibility to be fair and honest.
Are you aware that the standard bulk rate is either 5 cents or 10 cents an issue? If you are trying to sell an individual issue, selling it at guide value is fine, but when you are insisting that someone buy an entire collection, selling them at guide price will ensure that you never sell it. Unless it's nothing but silver age stuff. But other than that, if you manage to get 50% of guide value, consider yourself very lucky. Guide price absolutely does not apply to bulk sales. It's not taking advantage of someone, it's what common sense dictates. If I'm forced to buy 100 issues of Archie to get the 12 issues of Avengers that I want, I'm not going to pay full price for everything. If you don't believe me, go and show your local store the collection you have entered here. See what they would give you for it. That's how I got Ms. Marvel #1 for $1.13, X-Factor #6 for 87 cents and Avengers Annual #10 for 38 cents. Bulk purchases. And in every case, I gave the person almost exactly what they were asking for the collection. Everyone was asking for a low price in order to get a quick sale, not because they didn't know what they were worth. All were collectors. Guide price just does not apply to bulk purchases.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/8/2016
|
CapnDoug wrote:
Are you aware that the standard bulk rate is either 5 cents or 10 cents an issue? If you are trying to sell an individual issue, selling it at guide value is fine, but when you are insisting that someone buy an entire collection, selling them at guide price will ensure that you never sell it. Unless it's nothing but silver age stuff. But other than that, if you manage to get 50% of guide value, consider yourself very lucky. Guide price absolutely does not apply to bulk sales. It's not taking advantage of someone, it's what common sense dictates. If I'm forced to buy 100 issues of Archie to get the 12 issues of Avengers that I want, I'm not going to pay full price for everything. If you don't believe me, go and show your local store the collection you have entered here. See what they would give you for it. That's how I got Ms. Marvel #1 for $1.13, X-Factor #6 for 87 cents and Avengers Annual #10 for 38 cents. Bulk purchases. And in every case, I gave the person almost exactly what they were asking for the collection. Everyone was asking for a low price in order to get a quick sale, not because they didn't know what they were worth. All were collectors. Guide price just does not apply to bulk purchases.
Nope. You read my post completely wrong. I mean way off. Please read it again. Your example has nothing to do with my analogy. I wasn't referring to bulk sales at all. I was simply saying that it is stealing to take advantage of someone's ignorance, and lie to them either directly or by omission, in order to make a buck.
Watch "Comic Book Villains". From IMDB: Told from the point of view from Archie, a comic book collector, this is
the story of a rivalry between two comic book shop owners. One does it
for the love of comics, while the other shop, run by a husband-and-wife
team are in it strictly for the money. The situation brews to a head
when a sneak collector, Conan discovers a large collection of
perfectly-preserved classic comics, leading the two shops to vie to
acquire them, along with a "villain" who hopes to steal them first.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
CapnDoug Administrator Posts: 151
4/9/2016
|
erichey wrote:
CapnDoug wrote:
Are you aware that the standard bulk rate is either 5 cents or 10 cents an issue? If you are trying to sell an individual issue, selling it at guide value is fine, but when you are insisting that someone buy an entire collection, selling them at guide price will ensure that you never sell it. Unless it's nothing but silver age stuff. But other than that, if you manage to get 50% of guide value, consider yourself very lucky. Guide price absolutely does not apply to bulk sales. It's not taking advantage of someone, it's what common sense dictates. If I'm forced to buy 100 issues of Archie to get the 12 issues of Avengers that I want, I'm not going to pay full price for everything. If you don't believe me, go and show your local store the collection you have entered here. See what they would give you for it. That's how I got Ms. Marvel #1 for $1.13, X-Factor #6 for 87 cents and Avengers Annual #10 for 38 cents. Bulk purchases. And in every case, I gave the person almost exactly what they were asking for the collection. Everyone was asking for a low price in order to get a quick sale, not because they didn't know what they were worth. All were collectors. Guide price just does not apply to bulk purchases.
Nope. You read my post completely wrong. I mean way off. Please read it again. Your example has nothing to do with my analogy. I wasn't referring to bulk sales at all. I was simply saying that it is stealing to take advantage of someone's ignorance, and lie to them either directly or by omission, in order to make a buck.
Watch "Comic Book Villains". From IMDB: Told from the point of view from Archie, a comic book collector, this is
the story of a rivalry between two comic book shop owners. One does it
for the love of comics, while the other shop, run by a husband-and-wife
team are in it strictly for the money. The situation brews to a head
when a sneak collector, Conan discovers a large collection of
perfectly-preserved classic comics, leading the two shops to vie to
acquire them, along with a "villain" who hopes to steal them first.
No, I'm pretty sure I read your post correctly since your example did involve a "pedigree collection". You may not have intended it that way, but that appears to be the way it came across. You refer to people trying to get the best deal possible. That is what every single person tries to do every moment of their lives. The buyer wants the best deal for them, as does the seller. They start off with their opening offers and try to find a middle ground from there, if one is possible. This obviously is not likely at a store, where policies and prices can only be set by the owner, but in a negotiation at a convention or off craislist, then it happens every time. If a person says the price is set, then they are already offering it for the lowest price they would accept, rather than offering it a little higher in hopes of maybe getting a touch more. And even at a set price, people will still try to negotiate a better deal. And in that cost structure, you need to consider the value of your time as well. Plus the cost of gas, supplies and other such things. Even if we were all simply in this for the love of comics, which I assume all of us are, we are still going to try and get the best deal we can. It's basic self interest. While there may be other factors such as a need to move them quickly or the fact that they are part of an estate, we will all try to get the best deal possible.
To give you a real life example, I discovered CPG after my brother passed away. One friend wanted a few of his comics, but I was told not to give her any of the expensive stuff. In trying to determine what was and was not of any real value, I found CPG. And even if it was valuable, if I didn't want it, I would find someone who did. But aside from one or two issues, I simply gave them away to people. This includes a lot of moderately valuable Spider-Man, Batman, Uncanny X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool issues. It did not seem right for me to profit off his death, so I gave them away, rather than selling them, which I could have easily done, too. You can't forget that there are other factors involved in the price of an issue or a collection. I know that I get collections cheaper than some dealers because I will be keeping most of the issues and caring for them as opposed to selling them off. People would rather they go to a good home. Were I to say I'm going to keep them all and then turned around and sold them, then yes, I'd be the person you're complaining about, but I always tell them, "I'll sell the duplicates, but the majority will be kept" unless it's a collection with a lot of duplicates, in which case, I'm upfront about that, too. There are other factors involved in every transaction.
And again, both sides will come to an agreement on what is fair. So long as no underhanded methods are used, then who are we to judge? And I would not call someone failing to look up the value of their comics underhanded. That seems to be where the point of contention is, and when the information is readily available in multiple sources, then it cannot be viewed as underhanded.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/9/2016
|
CapnDoug wrote:
erichey wrote:
CapnDoug wrote:
Are you aware that the standard bulk rate is either 5 cents or 10 cents an issue? If you are trying to sell an individual issue, selling it at guide value is fine, but when you are insisting that someone buy an entire collection, selling them at guide price will ensure that you never sell it. Unless it's nothing but silver age stuff. But other than that, if you manage to get 50% of guide value, consider yourself very lucky. Guide price absolutely does not apply to bulk sales. It's not taking advantage of someone, it's what common sense dictates. If I'm forced to buy 100 issues of Archie to get the 12 issues of Avengers that I want, I'm not going to pay full price for everything. If you don't believe me, go and show your local store the collection you have entered here. See what they would give you for it. That's how I got Ms. Marvel #1 for $1.13, X-Factor #6 for 87 cents and Avengers Annual #10 for 38 cents. Bulk purchases. And in every case, I gave the person almost exactly what they were asking for the collection. Everyone was asking for a low price in order to get a quick sale, not because they didn't know what they were worth. All were collectors. Guide price just does not apply to bulk purchases.
Nope. You read my post completely wrong. I mean way off. Please read it again. Your example has nothing to do with my analogy. I wasn't referring to bulk sales at all. I was simply saying that it is stealing to take advantage of someone's ignorance, and lie to them either directly or by omission, in order to make a buck.
Watch "Comic Book Villains". From IMDB: Told from the point of view from Archie, a comic book collector, this is
the story of a rivalry between two comic book shop owners. One does it
for the love of comics, while the other shop, run by a husband-and-wife
team are in it strictly for the money. The situation brews to a head
when a sneak collector, Conan discovers a large collection of
perfectly-preserved classic comics, leading the two shops to vie to
acquire them, along with a "villain" who hopes to steal them first.
No, I'm pretty sure I read your post correctly since your example did involve a "pedigree collection". You may not have intended it that way, but that appears to be the way it came across. You refer to people trying to get the best deal possible. That is what every single person tries to do every moment of their lives. The buyer wants the best deal for them, as does the seller. They start off with their opening offers and try to find a middle ground from there, if one is possible. This obviously is not likely at a store, where policies and prices can only be set by the owner, but in a negotiation at a convention or off craislist, then it happens every time. If a person says the price is set, then they are already offering it for the lowest price they would accept, rather than offering it a little higher in hopes of maybe getting a touch more. And even at a set price, people will still try to negotiate a better deal. And in that cost structure, you need to consider the value of your time as well. Plus the cost of gas, supplies and other such things. Even if we were all simply in this for the love of comics, which I assume all of us are, we are still going to try and get the best deal we can. It's basic self interest. While there may be other factors such as a need to move them quickly or the fact that they are part of an estate, we will all try to get the best deal possible.
To give you a real life example, I discovered CPG after my brother passed away. One friend wanted a few of his comics, but I was told not to give her any of the expensive stuff. In trying to determine what was and was not of any real value, I found CPG. And even if it was valuable, if I didn't want it, I would find someone who did. But aside from one or two issues, I simply gave them away to people. This includes a lot of moderately valuable Spider-Man, Batman, Uncanny X-Men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool issues. It did not seem right for me to profit off his death, so I gave them away, rather than selling them, which I could have easily done, too. You can't forget that there are other factors involved in the price of an issue or a collection. I know that I get collections cheaper than some dealers because I will be keeping most of the issues and caring for them as opposed to selling them off. People would rather they go to a good home. Were I to say I'm going to keep them all and then turned around and sold them, then yes, I'd be the person you're complaining about, but I always tell them, "I'll sell the duplicates, but the majority will be kept" unless it's a collection with a lot of duplicates, in which case, I'm upfront about that, too. There are other factors involved in every transaction.
And again, both sides will come to an agreement on what is fair. So long as no underhanded methods are used, then who are we to judge? And I would not call someone failing to look up the value of their comics underhanded. That seems to be where the point of contention is, and when the information is readily available in multiple sources, then it cannot be viewed as underhanded.
Yes, you clearly didn't get the gist of my post. So we've been talking past each other unnecessarily. Your very last paragraph is what I have been trying to get across. "No underhanded method". That boils down the exact sentiment that I've been trying to convey. We shouldn't take advantage of people's ignorance. It's the same moral code that would keep us from using the mentally challenged. And, we shouldn't lie to people. All I've been asking is to be honest and fair. If you get a good deal and have been honest and fair, then I have no complaint. I hope we are on the same wavelength now. This has been overall a good conversation that I hope some people get something out of--though a bit convoluted at times. So I'll let this drop, and say thank you.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
Oxbladder Posts: 487
4/10/2016
|
It is not immoral at all obtaining a bulk set of books well under going rate. If the seller doesn't do the leg work to ensure they get what they want then that is not MY problem. I have been perfectly honest in my dealings in the past and more often than not it is the collector that has tried to rip me off. Information is out there that anyone can obtain with very little effort to ensure they never "become a victim". There are countless example out there of people buying stuff at garage sales, flea markets or whatever that turned out to be priceless works of art or historical significance. I doubt there isn't a single person out there that wishes that wouldn't happen to them. Being educated can pay off and remaining ignorant can be costly. That isn't sociopathy, it is just a fact of life. Just like buying low and selling high is how you earn profit. if you look at any collecting hobby all sellers would be sociopaths since they are asking over MSRP for (most) back issues and manufactures/publishers are selling to them for well over their cost.
Yes their are gougers out there but the fact that they get away with it speaks more to the customer's state of mind than the seller. The seller is trying to make money and they are going to take every advantage they can. That is how business works.
There was a seller here that gouged customers for decades. People complained about it but he went out on his terms and wasn't forced out. What does that tell you of where the burden of blame lies?
edited by Oxbladder on 4/10/2016
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/10/2016
|
Oxbladder wrote:
It is not immoral at all obtaining a bulk set of books well under going rate. If the seller doesn't do the leg work to ensure they get what they want then that is not MY problem. I have been perfectly honest in my dealings in the past and more often than not it is the collector that has tried to rip me off. Information is out there that anyone can obtain with very little effort to ensure they never "become a victim". There are countless example out there of people buying stuff at garage sales, flea markets or whatever that turned out to be priceless works of art or historical significance. I doubt there isn't a single person out there that wishes that wouldn't happen to them. Being educated can pay off and remaining ignorant can be costly. That isn't sociopathy, it is just a fact of life. Just like buying low and selling high is how you earn profit. if you look at any collecting hobby all sellers would be sociopaths since they are asking over MSRP for (most) back issues and manufactures/publishers are selling to them for well over their cost.
Yes their are gougers out there but the fact that they get away with it speaks more to the customer's state of mind than the seller. The seller is trying to make money and they are going to take every advantage they can. That is how business works.
There was a seller here that gouged customers for decades. People complained about it but he went out on his terms and wasn't forced out. What does that tell you of where the burden of blame lies?
edited by Oxbladder on 4/10/2016
You are completely misrepresenting my usage of the term sociopath. A sociopath is someone who's behavior lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Price gouging, artificial inflation of stock prices, mugging, exploiting the mentally challenged. These are all examples of what a sociopath does. These are behaviors that are marked by a lack of empathy. It isn't defined by how good of a business man one is, how well you haggle, or your ability to recognize a good deal. And no matter what lengths you go to justify taking advantage of someone, it is stealing. If someone recognizes a priceless work of art at a garage sale, and they get it for pennies and auction it for thousands, the fact that they didn't have any remorse or feeling for the people he deceived is the definition of sociopathic behavior. There are honest people out there that do let the owner know the item has value, and work to share it with them. They do it because they have a sense of right and wrong. And it is wrong to assume that if they didn't do their "due diligence" then they are at fault. That's cowardice.
If I came across a collection of books at a garage sale that the owners clearly have no idea what the potential value of them are, I'll be upfront with them. I'll ask them questions. If they really are ignorant, I would not deceive them and offer a few dollars to take it off their hands and then slink off like a weasel and sell them for a huge profit. I'll let them know what I know and do one of two things. Offer to sell the books for them for a percentage. Or, haggle a fair price after they know what it is they have.
Now, I've said my peace. Anyone who reads this can see what kind of person I am, and hopefully feel like I can be trusted if they want to buy anything from me, or sell me something. And I certainly don't want to do any business with someone who I can't trust to be fair and honest with me. There are ethics even in business.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
tonicmole Posts: 2
4/11/2016
|
Hold on. It depends heavily on the comicbook. I bought a coverless Batman #5 for $160 on ebay. Most comic guides would suggest no cover/no value. However, my Avengers #1 is around a 1.5 or 2.0 and a guide would suggest it's worth $1500. Guess what? They sale in the same shape as mine for $300 to $500 all day long. I saw a "buy it now" for a 3.0 graded for $1800. As far as classic comics go, the guides are way off.
Now, on the subject of buying comics at yard sales....they post a price, you buy them. It is not deceitful. You are not there to appraise items. You are a customer. Unless they ask your opinion, you have no obligation to give it. If you went to an auction would you go to all the other biders explaining the value of comics being sold? That'd be weird, and crazy. The more I think about a person going to yard sales, and auctions on a mission to educate people about the value of comics, the weirder it sounds. Who does that? It's like a one man "Antiques Road Show". Also, who doesn't know that some comics are valuable? "I got this 1940's Batman comic. I'm asking cover price." Come on. No one alive is old enough to not know what comics are worth at least a little. Now, if you're talking about stuff like Spawn #1.....who cares. Frankly it's insane to assume that buying comics under market value is some sort of theft. It's not wrong to help people, but holy bejesus. It's borderline creepy. Like you are pushing being a good person TOO much, and at some point you'll crack and become a serial killer. Keep in mind I bought a Uncanny X-men #12 at an auction and gave it to my cousin cause he was an X-men fan more than I was. I did not scream the value of the stack of comics which I got for $36. Actually most people would think you were some sort of weirdo. Honestly, if I met someone who did that type of thing I'd think, "I am not leaving my kids alone around them. Something ain't right." :P
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
erichey Posts: 31
4/11/2016
|
tonicmole wrote:
Hold on. It depends heavily on the comicbook. I bought a coverless Batman #5 for $160 on ebay. Most comic guides would suggest no cover/no value. However, my Avengers #1 is around a 1.5 or 2.0 and a guide would suggest it's worth $1500. Guess what? They sale in the same shape as mine for $300 to $500 all day long. I saw a "buy it now" for a 3.0 graded for $1800. As far as classic comics go, the guides are way off.
Now, on the subject of buying comics at yard sales....they post a price, you buy them. It is not deceitful. You are not there to appraise items. You are a customer. Unless they ask your opinion, you have no obligation to give it. If you went to an auction would you go to all the other biders explaining the value of comics being sold? That'd be weird, and crazy. The more I think about a person going to yard sales, and auctions on a mission to educate people about the value of comics, the weirder it sounds. Who does that? It's like a one man "Antiques Road Show". Also, who doesn't know that some comics are valuable? "I got this 1940's Batman comic. I'm asking cover price." Come on. No one alive is old enough to not know what comics are worth at least a little. Now, if you're talking about stuff like Spawn #1.....who cares. Frankly it's insane to assume that buying comics under market value is some sort of theft. It's not wrong to help people, but holy bejesus. It's borderline creepy. Like you are pushing being a good person TOO much, and at some point you'll crack and become a serial killer. Keep in mind I bought a Uncanny X-men #12 at an auction and gave it to my cousin cause he was an X-men fan more than I was. I did not scream the value of the stack of comics which I got for $36. Actually most people would think you were some sort of weirdo. Honestly, if I met someone who did that type of thing I'd think, "I am not leaving my kids alone around them. Something ain't right." :P
You're reading way to much into this. None of this is at all what I am suggesting. No where in my posts have I suggested that we should go around educating everyone about comics. If you actually read my posts, what I have consistently articulated is the need to be honest and fair. Honest and fair. Honest and fair. This conversation has gotten way too convoluted. Let's see if I can put what I'm saying in more straightforward and simple terms so there is no confusion about what I have been saying.
1) When selling a comic online that is not graded, let the buyer know everything about its condition. Cover, back and interior. Be upfront and honest about what it is they are buying. Don't omit any details. Give photos is asked for.
2) Whatever price you sell it for, the buyer knows exactly what they are getting. They can't complain and say they got ripped off.
3) There is no need to educate everyone you are selling/buying comics to or from. If they are selling books at a convention, it is safe to assume they know what they are doing. If you are dealing with someone online, the best anyone can do is be completely upfront and honest about the book they are wanting to buy from you, and you ask all there is to know about the book you are buying along with some photographs so you can see it for yourself.
4) If you are at a garage sale, and a mentally challenged person is selling his books, don't take advantage of them. If he/she is selling Amazing Spider-Man #1 in fine to very fine condition for $.50, don't steal it from him/her for $.50. Talk to him with his parent or guardian about what they have. I personally would offer to sell it for them for a commission (again this is what I would do but have no expectations that anyone else would feel the same.) Or, check the guide and eBay for an idea of what it is currently going for and barter. The definition of what fair price is between you and them.
5) Last hypothetical situation (again please see the film Comic Book Villains, a fun movie that has this situation in it.) You are at an estate/garage sale for someone who has passed on that is being handled by the family (not an auction company) that just wants to get rid of everything in order to move on with their lives. There is a collection of books that have valuable or key issues that the family either wasn't aware of, or didn't think they were worth anything. Treat the situation like I described in 4) (yes I know they aren't mentally challenged, but it is the same ethical situation.) Let them know what they have. Make a fair offer (understandable that it would not be the going rate nor above the value) that would allow you a profit if you want to sell them.
At this point, if anyone doesn't get what I'm saying, or they want to justify unethical behavior because "capitalism" or "what the market will bear" or ignore your responsibility to be honest, then there is nothing more I can do. This thread has gone off the rails from what the original post was about. But I don't think I can be any more clear. The reason I kept responding is I felt what I was writing was being misrepresented. Misunderstood at best. So this is my last best effort to be explain my argument. I've grown bored, and exhausted. Good luck.
|
|
|
0
link
|
|
genuinearticlecomics Posts: 19
4/11/2016
|
Good grief!!
|
|
|
0
link
|
