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Draven68 Posts: 136
7/3/2021
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I've been a member here for a number of years and I've come to the conclusion that almost everyone has an opinion as to where to go to get the most current (valid) price for a comic. I'm just going to throw it out there, that I go to the often cursed eBay. I personally go there because there I can see the most current BULK average sold prices of that particular comic that I'm trying to get a feel of it's value. More times than not I see members complain that this IS NOT a good place to go for what they deem "the correct current value" of comics.
So that leads me to the question... Where exactly is the go to place to get "the correct current value" of any comic? If there's a better place that can be trusted and is current, I would love to know. This way I'm not wasting my time, as well as CPG, when I'm requesting an increase or decrease of a particular comic.
Thanks in advance and good luck in your search for your holy grails.
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BasementComics Posts: 784
7/3/2021
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Ebay is not a price guide but it is a market indicator. You are right, IMHO, about looking at closed auctions to see an average of what books are selling for.
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Xvipah73 Posts: 273
7/3/2021
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I do the same thing, I use here, eBay sold prices, and sometimes MCS sold prices to get at least a fairly good idea of what a comic may be worth/going for.
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BasementComics Posts: 784
7/3/2021
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Auctions like Heritage and Hakes are good gauges too.
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
7/3/2021
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I search E-Bay using the sold feature but you need to remember E-Bay is a world wide market with a lot of sellers and buyers. There are E-Bay costs, and PayPal costs you have to take in as well so you can subtract that from the value that it sold for. Things on E-bay tend to sell higher then what they would sell for anywhere else too because it's seen by a lot more people. Heritage is another place where if you went off of just their sold prices, comic values would be even higher. I never really understood why Heritage prices always seem to go higher then anywhere else but they do. That doesn't mean that's what the value of that book is though. The fact that today's market is so crazy doesn't help either. I just but a couple of books off of ComicLink well under the 90 day average so E-Bay is not the final verdict. I am just a collector not a seller so I hardly ever use E-Bay due to I know I can find that same book cheaper elsewhere. I know that doesn't really help but like I said it's a crazy market so your not going to find a straight answer.
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
7/3/2021
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Theoldcollector wrote:
I search E-Bay using the sold feature but you need to remember E-Bay is a world wide market with a lot of sellers and buyers. There are E-Bay costs, and PayPal costs you have to take in as well so you can subtract that from the value that it sold for. Things on E-bay tend to sell higher then what they would sell for anywhere else too because it's seen by a lot more people. Heritage is another place where if you went off of just their sold prices, comic values would be even higher. I never really understood why Heritage prices always seem to go higher then anywhere else but they do. That doesn't mean that's what the value of that book is though. The fact that today's market is so crazy doesn't help either. I just but a couple of books off of ComicLink well under the 90 day average so E-Bay is not the final verdict. I am just a collector not a seller so I hardly ever use E-Bay due to I know I can find that same book cheaper elsewhere. I know that doesn't really help but like I said it's a crazy market so your not going to find a straight answer.
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2379
7/4/2021
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This market is really tough to keep up with because things can double in price overnight. That's not an exaggeration. There are added complexities with sales that don't look legitimate. If there is a crazy high sale for something on the same day as a reasonable sale we will filter it out. We don't want sellers artificially inflating the market. We are striving to improve our accuracy every day. If you're in this hobby for the long term we are easily the best most complete option.
Ron
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
7/4/2021
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Defiant1 wrote:
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
I understand Heritage themselves I guess I should've said I never understood the price these buyers pay. It makes no sense to me that buyers go on there and bid up books to ridiculous prices when if they had just took the time to look they could have bought the same book graded the same or even better for way less money. For instance one ASM 800 autographed book went for almost $400 on one of there auctions and that same book with the same autograph was up for sell on E-bay by multiple dealers for $180-$200 buy it now. If that is a book you want, why pay double and wait for the actual auction to start when you can just buy it immediately for less? Makes no sense. I understand it's Heritage's clientele that will and can pay more, it just seems like for rich people they aren't real savvy with their money. That's a low dollar book now think about how much money they are wasting for high dollar books. They will wait longer and pay way more on there for a book they could have just bought from A-1 or Reece or any one of the other many dealers that sell high end books.
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
7/4/2021
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Theoldcollector wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
I understand Heritage themselves I guess I should've said I never understood the price these buyers pay. It makes no sense to me that buyers go on there and bid up books to ridiculous prices when if they had just took the time to look they could have bought the same book graded the same or even better for way less money. For instance one ASM 800 autographed book went for almost $400 on one of there auctions and that same book with the same autograph was up for sell on E-bay by multiple dealers for $180-$200 buy it now. If that is a book you want, why pay double and wait for the actual auction to start when you can just buy it immediately for less? Makes no sense. I understand it's Heritage's clientele that will and can pay more, it just seems like for rich people they aren't real savvy with their money. That's a low dollar book now think about how much money they are wasting for high dollar books. They will wait longer and pay way more on there for a book they could have just bought from A-1 or Reece or any one of the other many dealers that sell high end books.
Trust will outweigh price shopping if someone has a lot of money.
Despite that, I do believe there are some high end retailers working multiple business fronts and manipulating the market. If you sell a $400 comic to yourself at $800, eventually someone will believe $700 is a good deal.
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BasementComics Posts: 784
7/4/2021
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Defiant1 wrote:
Theoldcollector wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
I understand Heritage themselves I guess I should've said I never understood the price these buyers pay. It makes no sense to me that buyers go on there and bid up books to ridiculous prices when if they had just took the time to look they could have bought the same book graded the same or even better for way less money. For instance one ASM 800 autographed book went for almost $400 on one of there auctions and that same book with the same autograph was up for sell on E-bay by multiple dealers for $180-$200 buy it now. If that is a book you want, why pay double and wait for the actual auction to start when you can just buy it immediately for less? Makes no sense. I understand it's Heritage's clientele that will and can pay more, it just seems like for rich people they aren't real savvy with their money. That's a low dollar book now think about how much money they are wasting for high dollar books. They will wait longer and pay way more on there for a book they could have just bought from A-1 or Reece or any one of the other many dealers that sell high end books.
Trust will outweigh price shopping if someone has a lot of money.
Despite that, I do believe there are some high end retailers working multiple business fronts and manipulating the market. If you sell a $400 comic to yourself at $800, eventually someone will believe $700 is a good deal.
I would be interested in knowing who that is so I don't do business with them. If you're not comfortable posting their name here, would you message it to me?
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
7/4/2021
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Defiant1 wrote:
Theoldcollector wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
I understand Heritage themselves I guess I should've said I never understood the price these buyers pay. It makes no sense to me that buyers go on there and bid up books to ridiculous prices when if they had just took the time to look they could have bought the same book graded the same or even better for way less money. For instance one ASM 800 autographed book went for almost $400 on one of there auctions and that same book with the same autograph was up for sell on E-bay by multiple dealers for $180-$200 buy it now. If that is a book you want, why pay double and wait for the actual auction to start when you can just buy it immediately for less? Makes no sense. I understand it's Heritage's clientele that will and can pay more, it just seems like for rich people they aren't real savvy with their money. That's a low dollar book now think about how much money they are wasting for high dollar books. They will wait longer and pay way more on there for a book they could have just bought from A-1 or Reece or any one of the other many dealers that sell high end books.
Trust will outweigh price shopping if someone has a lot of money.
Despite that, I do believe there are some high end retailers working multiple business fronts and manipulating the market. If you sell a $400 comic to yourself at $800, eventually someone will believe $700 is a good deal.
I saw some very suspicious transactions on the same book and it dawned upon me that that some very shady practices were possible. There was some kind of connection between two retail businesses but it wasn't clear.
The same books were going back and forth between the businesses and the selling price was jumping drastically each time they sold. With people tracking data on high end books, I saw that it was possible to fake an increased demand without there actually being a real customer. I have no proof, but I'm highly suspicious. It also dawned upon me that the stock market has laws to protect investors, but the collectibles market doesn't.
I don't remember which specific businesses were involved in the transactions, but I just tucked away in my mind that caution should be observed if high end or high grade expensive comics start spiking in price for some unknown reason.
Some high end dealers will front an expensive book to another high end dealer if they think the other dealer can make a sale for them. It's not uncommon for two retailers to be involved with the sale of one book. It is unusual in my opinion if the same book is bouncing around and the price keeps jumping drastically.
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
7/5/2021
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Defiant1 wrote:
Trust will outweigh price shopping if someone has a lot of money.
Despite that, I do believe there are some high end retailers working multiple business fronts and manipulating the market. If you sell a $400 comic to yourself at $800, eventually someone will believe $700 is a good deal.
I just happen to come across other collectors talking about Heritage on another site today and how Heritage shill bid their auctions. They have actually been sued for this as well back in 2009.Other collectors are saying they still do this and somehow it's legal in Texas. They will supposedly bid right up to your max on higher end books to make sure they get the most for the item or they will use a fake name to raise up the bids on items that supposedly have no reserves. The name they were using when they got sued for it was N.P. Gresham. I guess this would also help explain why their auctions seem to pull in more money. 
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Biddle7819 Posts: 170
7/5/2021
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If this is the case then they should be shut down as a business and their owners sent to jail for Fraud!! Here in the UK Auction Houses are regulated and such actions are illegal
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
7/5/2021
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This is from the 2009 case against Heritage.
"Defendants used N.P. Gresham as a sham bidder or shill to bid
against Hendershott at various auctions ... (A)s seen in Exhibit 4, N.P.
Gresham, which was in fact Heritage, was bidding on items when it
stated no house bids were to be made. N.P. Gresham actively bids in
almost every auction Heritage conducts"
If you google Heritage Shill there are a lot of different collectors talking about them. More on the coin collecting side than comics but there are comic collectors talking about them as well and how they raise the sale price to a dollar below the bidder's max proxy bids. Not on every single item but primarily on the higher value ones.
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BasementComics Posts: 784
7/5/2021
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Theoldcollector wrote:
This is from the 2009 case against Heritage.
"Defendants used N.P. Gresham as a sham bidder or shill to bid
against Hendershott at various auctions ... (A)s seen in Exhibit 4, N.P.
Gresham, which was in fact Heritage, was bidding on items when it
stated no house bids were to be made. N.P. Gresham actively bids in
almost every auction Heritage conducts"
If you google Heritage Shill there are a lot of different collectors talking about them. More on the coin collecting side than comics but there are comic collectors talking about them as well and how they raise the sale price to a dollar below the bidder's max proxy bids. Not on every single item but primarily on the higher value ones.
Jerks
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lokyel Posts: 430
7/5/2021
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Theoldcollector wrote:
Defiant1 wrote:
The most valuable thing a Golden Age dealer has is his customer list. Heritage sells high end & high dollar collectibles, so they attract customers with deep pockets.
Customers that spend a lot of money go back to sellers that have what they want and they go back to sellers they trust.
Comics shops that sell new comics every week used to say, they can't sell Golden age comics or they don't sell Silver Age well.
There's a reason. People who spend a lot of money aren't wasting their time with sellers who focus on new comics.
You have to build a clientele for expensive books before you will ever consistently sell expensive books.
I'd say Heritage has a clientele of buyers/bidders that will & can pay more for what they buy.
I understand Heritage themselves I guess I should've said I never understood the price these buyers pay. It makes no sense to me that buyers go on there and bid up books to ridiculous prices when if they had just took the time to look they could have bought the same book graded the same or even better for way less money. For instance one ASM 800 autographed book went for almost $400 on one of there auctions and that same book with the same autograph was up for sell on E-bay by multiple dealers for $180-$200 buy it now. If that is a book you want, why pay double and wait for the actual auction to start when you can just buy it immediately for less? Makes no sense. I understand it's Heritage's clientele that will and can pay more, it just seems like for rich people they aren't real savvy with their money. That's a low dollar book now think about how much money they are wasting for high dollar books. They will wait longer and pay way more on there for a book they could have just bought from A-1 or Reece or any one of the other many dealers that sell high end books.
ok I have to take a moment to state that I would never ever give any of my business to A-1
While in one of there stores an 7-8 year old kid came in to find out the value of his grandfathers comics the owner did a slight of hand and ditched a very key issue under the counter and handed the stack back to the kid and told him they were not worth a whole lot. the kid left. a little bit later one of there regulars came in and he sold that book.
If a store is willing to steel from a kid what else are the willing to do.
a few months later 3 other comics shops were broken in to and all the stuff that was taken ended up in there store.
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
7/5/2021
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lokyel wrote:
ok I have to take a moment to state that I would never ever give any of my business to A-1
While in one of there stores an 7-8 year old kid came in to find out the value of his grandfathers comics the owner did a slight of hand and ditched a very key issue under the counter and handed the stack back to the kid and told him they were not worth a whole lot. the kid left. a little bit later one of there regulars came in and he sold that book.
If a store is willing to steel from a kid what else are the willing to do.
a few months later 3 other comics shops were broken in to and all the stuff that was taken ended up in there store.
Wait you saw this and didn't speak up? I don't care who it is, if I saw someone steal from a kid I would have called them out on it. And I wasn't trying to advertise for them or say they are good I was just trying to point out there are plenty of dealers with higher end books for sale.
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lokyel Posts: 430
7/5/2021
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Theoldcollector wrote:
lokyel wrote:
ok I have to take a moment to state that I would never ever give any of my business to A-1
While in one of there stores an 7-8 year old kid came in to find out the value of his grandfathers comics the owner did a slight of hand and ditched a very key issue under the counter and handed the stack back to the kid and told him they were not worth a whole lot. the kid left. a little bit later one of there regulars came in and he sold that book.
If a store is willing to steel from a kid what else are the willing to do.
a few months later 3 other comics shops were broken in to and all the stuff that was taken ended up in there store.
Wait you saw this and didn't speak up? I don't care who it is, if I saw someone steal from a kid I would have called them out on it. And I wasn't trying to advertise for them or say they are good I was just trying to point out there are plenty of dealers with higher end books for sale.
I did and was told it was non of my business. haven't been back sense and I was a regular.
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