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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
3/14/2021
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I am new to collecting again after stopping a few years ago and this market has me scratching my head. Where in the world can you find raw or graded books at the listed prices on here? Short of getting lucky on some of the not as popular auction sites everywhere else I look for older comics the prices are well above what's listed on the price guide's site. Especially on eBay, the prices there are just getting more and more ridiculous by the day. Where is everyone buying their comics for their collections? Right now I have been looking for ASM mainly 10-199 minus the ones I already have. I have been looking for only higher grades and the prices are always higher than the prices listed here. I've tried a few LCS here East of Dallas but most of them do not have a large back stock. Hell I stopped at one store the other day after leaving work and they only carried current with no back stock at all in the store. I tried a couple of antique stores / flea markets looking for older comics and it was the same there as well, way over priced. The last one I went to had a Wolverine #8 at best an 8.5 priced for $75 but they had a half off sale  lol I just want to build my collection with higher grade books without paying double the value. Any advise on where I should be looking? Anyone live in the Dallas area that knows of an LCS that is not over priced on older books like Tomb of Dracula and ASM? Or do any of you have a favorite website for older stuff?
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BasementComics Posts: 784
3/14/2021
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I see it with golden age Batman and Detective. Coverless books sometimes sell for higher than GD or even VG. Users on this site say that ebay and other auction sites are not price guides however they do reflect market trends.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/15/2021
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No matter how well connected the world is there is always regional variation in pricing. In my area local shops get ridden pretty hard if they price at online or any guide other than Overstreet. price guides never reflect the market 100 %. right now it's a sellers market and I wouldn't plan on that ending until there is return to post pandemic life. Until that time, and beyond, you are going too have to adjust your expectations because it seems that you are unable to understand that the market is telling you what values are. Since you are talking high grade and older you are in the realm of prices that are multiples of guide and popular series even in slow market times.
And no eBay is no price guide but if you are looking outside your local market it is a good indicator of what people are willing to pay. prices are high because almost all online ventures carry many extra costs and have a very wide reach to a larger market than a brick and mortar. brick and mortars also fighting in the battle so if they can get more for their product and not take many hits review-wise for it then why should they leave money on the table?
Anyway, the best you can do is show around. If the prices are "high" everywhere you look then it's, sadly, going to take you longer to reach your goals. Unless one is rolling in dough most of us folks have to deal with what the market dictates and very often it can price you out of many of your goals.
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rustyauger Posts: 159
3/15/2021
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I just bought an ASM 361 Newsstand CGC 9.6 for $470.
I thought that was a pretty good deal.
Prices are high. People are saying that they will come down after the pandemic but I am not so sure. Check out this video about new money coming into the comic book market and why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DduNhkHf4s0
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2381
3/15/2021
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There are hundreds of Amazing Spiderman issues listed on this site for at or around the value listed here. You know that you can buy from sellers on this site, right?
ASM 150 has 11 sellers
ASM 151 has 8 sellers
etc, etc.
But I do agree that there are weird things happening in the market. Here are some of the reasons that I believe cause this.
1. Online vs Real World pricing can sometimes vary dramatically. Spawn 1 can sell for $1 in nm online and $20 at a comic shop. I've spoken to several comic shops and this is almost always the case.
2. Because of the stimulus checks the prices for comics has risen dramatically, especially key issues. When the initial rush is over, the prices drop back down again. It's definitely a seller's market as Oxbladder mentioned.
3. The speculation market is driving the overall market more so than in the past. There are a few individuals who can say any book is hot and it will immediately rise in value.
R
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rgtichy Posts: 124
3/15/2021
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The graded prices at ha.com are mind-blowing, too.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/15/2021
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rustyauger wrote:
I just bought an ASM 361 Newsstand CGC 9.6 for $470.
I thought that was a pretty good deal.
Prices are high. People are saying that they will come down after the pandemic but I am not so sure. Check out this video about new money coming into the comic book market and why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DduNhkHf4s0
I doubt prices on many older books will drop but prices should stabilize a bit. Only the more recent books will actually drop in value, though don't expect the book that are fetching in the hundreds to drop. The market has changed over the last 10 years where prices on some books go up quickly and will not drop significantly because people have sunk too much money in. It used to be that $500 was the point at which you would not see a book crash down in value but that is no longer the case. Books like Nyx #3, Edge of Spider-verse #2, Avenging Spider-man #9, etc are all at points now where they will plateau in value and maybe drop but the general trend will still be up though at a far slower pace than they initially spiked.
Once people have more to do with their money they will do it and the market will calm down.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/15/2021
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Ronbatman wrote:
There are hundreds of Amazing Spiderman issues listed on this site for at or around the value listed here. You know that you can buy from sellers on this site, right?
ASM 150 has 11 sellers
ASM 151 has 8 sellers
etc, etc.
But I do agree that there are weird things happening in the market. Here are some of the reasons that I believe cause this.
1. Online vs Real World pricing can sometimes vary dramatically. Spawn 1 can sell for $1 in nm online and $20 at a comic shop. I've spoken to several comic shops and this is almost always the case.
2. Because of the stimulus checks the prices for comics has risen dramatically, especially key issues. When the initial rush is over, the prices drop back down again. It's definitely a seller's market as Oxbladder mentioned.
3. The speculation market is driving the overall market more so than in the past. There are a few individuals who can say any book is hot and it will immediately rise in value.
R
If you look there are lots of places to get books for less money but you still have to be aware of shipping costs. Sometimes people aren't and they may not get a better price.
With respect to #1. Because of regional variation in the market and supply and demand you can easily get the inverse as well. Online is NOT always cheaper. Here most brick and mortar prices are pretty reasonable and very often cheaper than online. However, that can go out the door on older books from the silver and gold age because of the scarcity of that material here. I know that in earlier days of this forum there were people from Detroit and St Louis who could get some old titles really cheap compared to online and stores here because those books were easy to come by. A long time ago there was a dealer here that often did a convention circuit through the US and he was able to trade hot modern books for gold and silver age books in San Francisco and other California locations because they had a wealth of that material and no buyers but a severe shortage of hot new books.
Yeah online can get you just about whatever you want but the fact still remains that you can and do get regional variation in the market and that will affect your in store buying experience. You also have less and less dealers willing to leave money on the table when they know they can get more. Collectors always rail against stores trying to make money, especially here, because it can be so easy for the average collector to try and cash in on the trends if they get the information in a timely matter. Applications like Key Collector have become the Wizard Price Guide Hot Ten of this era and it is fueling speculation than when CGC and eBay fueled it back in the early 2000's because people are getting the information in advance of release of books and you don't have to spend a lot of money to partake in most of the books that they profile. You need money to play the CGC and eBay game back in the early 2000's
With respect to #3, speculation is having a faster effect and trends change weekly but I wouldn't say it is driving it any more than in the past there are just more people partaking in the speculation. Speculation has ALWAYS been there and will always be there. There is good and bad about it but it is a necessary evil if your in any way concerned about the value of your collection. I certainly wouldn't be upset if it was dialed back a bit but, then again it really doesn't affect my day to day collecting.
edited by oxbladder on 3/15/2021
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
3/16/2021
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rgtichy wrote:
The graded prices at ha.com are mind-blowing, too.
Now this is a fact! I watch these hoping to find a deal in there but then the second they go to live bidding the $$ goes though the roof on their stuff.
I think when my kids have to sell my collection one day, I'm going to tell them to sell it with HA 
As for buying books here, I just sent my first few offers out but not quite sure what the etiquette is for putting out offers to multiple people for the same book. Do I send out one and then wait a few days or send out them all and see who gets back to me first? If the later what happens when more then one individual accepts?
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Xvipah73 Posts: 274
3/16/2021
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I find some really good deals on books at https://www.digauction.com/
It's auctions, so sometimes things get overpriced due to bidding wars and such. In general though I get stuff at or below the price here, nm what they are selling for on Ebay or something.
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
3/16/2021
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I think digauction is really good as well. They are pretty decent with their grading and pictures. I hate the ones like hipcomic where you have no real idea on what shape the book is in. I got an older Daredevil from hip and it looked great in the one picture they provide so I went for it. I received it and the pages inside look like someone's fruit punch was poured on it. Was pretty disappointed.
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Xvipah73 Posts: 274
3/16/2021
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Yea, I think dig, since it's Diamond International and they have a "reputation" to uphold, make sure they give you exactly what they say they're giving you. Plus I love their notification style, notify you of your own bid, and if you've been outbid, it's pretty sweet.
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Theoldcollector Posts: 213
3/20/2021
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rustyauger wrote:
I just bought an ASM 361 Newsstand CGC 9.6 for $470.
I thought that was a pretty good deal.
Prices are high. People are saying that they will come down after the pandemic but I am not so sure. Check out this video about new money coming into the comic book market and why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DduNhkHf4s0
This is my comment on that video's page:
"The problem with your theory is there are a ton of comic collectors who do have these comics in raw status and you say most people that collect will not submit their comics to get graded but if you look at just New Mutants 98 alone there were 2,700 9.8's Jan 2019 with a total of 13,165 graded with CGC. In Jan 2021 there were 3,316 9.8's and a total of 16,723 graded. That's over 3,000 sent in to be graded just in the last two years. This book came out in 1991 when there was mass production in comics and the speculation market was peaking at that time like it is again now so many people were collecting at that time. There are no shortages in this book and as long as the price keeps going up you're going to have more and more of them keep showing up on the CGC census and eventually it will be over saturated with it and once again you will have a bust in the comics book markets just like the early 90's. The new money theory doesn't really play out well in the long run when it comes to comics either. A ton of comic collectors have been collecting for many years and the older ones I would imagine have a lot deeper pockets and they have been playing this game for many many years. This speculation market is no different from the one that killed comic book values in the late 80's early 90's. Keep looking at the yearly numbers and they will keep growing as long as there is someone willing to keep paying high dollar amounts for that book. These numbers apply to older books as well such as Incredible Hulk 181, there were a total of 8,814 CGC graded in January of 2019 and a total of 10,890 in January of 2021 and this is a book printed in 1974 and I guarantee there are plenty more of those to be added as well. Maybe I'm wrong but if you look at the history of comics I would say there's a good chance this market will pop and when it does there are going to be a lot of people holding a $80 book wondering why they payed $2000 for it."
Thoughts?
edited by TheOldCollector on 3/20/2021
edited by TheOldCollector on 3/20/2021
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rustyauger Posts: 159
3/20/2021
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There are definitely lots of these comics still being graded, but the guy in the video is saying that the census counts of key copper age comics are far lower than the population counts of key sport cards. So the reason all these keys are climbing in value is because the price was set at the previous demand and when a bunch of new money entered the market there was not enough supply so the prices have risen. 3,300 CGC 9.8s is not a big number when you are talking about a character as ubiquitous as Deadpool. Even if that number goes up to 5,000 CGC 9.8s it will still likely hold its value or continue climbing.
edited by rustyauger on 3/20/2021
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Guest
3/20/2021
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New mutants 98 is believed to have anywhere from 225k-300k printed, if you look at some sites they think that number is even higher. That means there are a lot of those comics just laying around in peoples collections. Now I know that quite a few were probably lost, destroyed or just thrown away over the years but that still leaves a ton of them out there from people like myself, who after buying a comic and reading them bag them and throw them in a box not to be seen again for god knows how long. But when numbers start getting crazy like this you will start to have the collectors who collect and don't normally sale start digging these out and selling them because of the market's crazy inflation. I think there will be a point where people realize that this book is not as rare as one might think and when that happens the price will drop. Not so much so on older books but I think this one is way over priced for the long game. Comparing comics to cards is comparing apples to oranges. They are both a collectors item sure but when was the last time you saw a baseball card shop? Does the average card collector now a days collect the whole series of cards or just the hot ones? Comics are read by their owners and then stored away, and I would dare to say most comic collectors "not flippers" don't tend to sell their collections until something drastic like this happens in the market or if they need money for something else. I have boxes and boxes of comics that I am just now getting around to organizing and trying to complete out sets that I started on 30 years ago and moving them all from cardboard boxes to plastic boxes to make my office / man cave look updated and organized lol.
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Guest
3/22/2021
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There are lots of most comics from the last 40+ years that have high print runs and where most of the run survived and many in high grade. Scarcity has nothing to do with prices it is demand that drives it. speculation is always there it was not any stronger back in the 90's than it was in the 80's, 70's, or whenever. It is a part of any collecting hobby. Speculation can cause problems, but having a strong market is not a bad thing.
What caused the crash in the 90's didn't wasn't because of speculation or the numbers of books being published, high numbers wasn't across the board. It started with the collapse of the sports card market. a large number of those people tried. their hand a the comic market as it was still doing well. This swelled some of the print numbers and increased demand on the market prices. A few years later these people left the market as they either got bored or lost too much money by not knowing the market. the bad thing about this is that stores have to order two months in advance and cannot get returns for unsold product so you can imagine how the market can be flooded with product and the majority doesn't sell. when this happens it reverberates down the line. on the tale end of all this came Marvel's announcement that they were going to distribute their own books through their own distributor.this pretty much did in a huge number of stores as they had to suddenly create a new account with a new discount and a whole new set of shipping and handling charges. The invasion and surrender of numbers bookended by the Marvel move effectively blew up the hobby.
Yes, there will be another crash at some point but not in the near future. The pandemic sure didn't do it and it only helped. There are also plenty of books like Edge of Spider-verse #2 and New Mutants #98 that are not going to be crashing down to $80. Once ca book get to a certain value it never crashes it will just slow down.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/22/2021
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Sorry that was me the inter web gods booted me while typing
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2381
3/22/2021
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Good thoughts everyone. This is an interesting read.
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Guest
3/23/2021
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Just to touch on this subject: Before the MCU exploded after the first Avengers movie, our hobby was mostly concentrated in North America and parts of Europe. That's no longer the case. More people worldwide are being exposed to the characters, and some of them are taking the dip into comics themselves. While there might've been a few million collectors actively buying and following auctions in the past, there are who knows how many more active now. Comics that were always plentiful aren't as easy to come by cheap, because there is still a finite number of them available. The pool of collectors is growing, too. I don't mean the ones who buy new monthly issues like so many of us did. They are looking at key back issues and variants, and those are the segments of the market that are booming now. For those who are unwilling to pay today's prices, what if we are nowhere near the end of these price spikes? The prices that seem high today might not look that way in a year. There is some serious money flooding into the hobby, and it could be here to stay.
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pthomas2010 Posts: 116
3/23/2021
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I did the comment above.
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