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radiotto Posts: 45
2/20/2018
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After going through all the Legacy renumbering stuff last year, Marvel decided it was too complicated, so they're launching a bunch of new #1s.
Is Marvel in danger of alienating their longtime readers?
Here are the details, including the video trailer for what they're calling the Fresh Start initiative:
http://blog.comicspriceguide.com/2018/02/20/marvel-reversing-course-and-calling-it-fresh-start/
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
2/21/2018
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Marvel still publishes comics? Odd.
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expander Posts: 241
2/21/2018
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Defiant1 wrote:
Marvel still publishes comics? Odd.
LOL!!!
I was excited about some of the titles that legacy brought back but fresh start just feels like it's the beginning of yet another gimmick in a long LONG line of gimmicks.
It's not that I won't read the new stuff but it seems like a new excuse for 50+ variants of the new #1's.
I can hear the ebay execs wringing their hands in excitement over this one.
Too cynical????
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Bontchimuz Posts: 1
2/21/2018
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I’ve been collected comics for almost 30 years. There’s almost nothing marvel can do to stop me from buying X-Men and Spiderman books. That being said, I’m really getting sick of all the titles starting over with issue number one.
I was beyond excited to go back to legacy numbering and was really hoping X-Men join the club. Oh well
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2378
2/21/2018
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It seems like we are all seeing through the slightly veiled scheme for more #1's. I'm most curious about which books or characters will fade away. In the "excitement" of it all, Marvel will quietly usher some characters to the door, but who?
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Guest
2/21/2018
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The Secret Wars II event just happened to coincide with my re-entrance (after a nearly 10 year hiatus) into reading/buying comics, and that was successful in gaining my interest in new Marvel titles. But over the last two years my interest in Marvel titles has dwindled to basically just Cap and anything that says Star Wars on it. Why? Too many "events", creative team line-up changes, and relaunches. To me it feels like Marvel doesn't have faith in their overall storytelling direction and instead of letting individual teams find their place in the mythos over time, they find it easier to either shoehorn "events" into titles or just up and change it all. The seemingly constant breaking of the feel of titles wore me down to complete disinterest.
Introducing a "Fresh Start" does nothing to reinvigorate my interest in the various titles I've dropped.
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solarno Posts: 164
2/21/2018
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Ahh, the CPG forum finally did the dreaded "post my reply as guest" bug to me. I'm thinking it might be a time-out function.
The Secret Wars II event just happened to coincide with my re-entrance (after a nearly 10 year hiatus) into reading/buying comics, and that was successful in gaining my interest in new Marvel titles. But over the last two years my interest in Marvel titles has dwindled to basically just Cap and anything that says Star Wars on it. Why? Too many "events", creative team line-up changes, and relaunches. To me it feels like Marvel doesn't have faith in their overall storytelling direction and instead of letting individual teams find their place in the mythos over time, they find it easier to either shoehorn "events" into titles or just up and change it all. The seemingly constant breaking of the feel of titles wore me down to complete disinterest.
Introducing a "Fresh Start" does nothing to reinvigorate my interest in the various titles I've dropped.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
2/26/2018
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I have no complaints about Marvel, unlike most. On the surface some of the changes they did seemed bad but reading some of the offerings the last time around they were good reads. Marvel, however, did a poor job of handling the gripers. Mind you, if they did what readers wanted little would ever change in comics. Collectors absolutely hate change. So Marvel forced it and folks, of course, didn't like it. When Marvel PR responded with "you guys know nothing" it didn't go over too well.
As for reboots, variants, and everything else that is all the fault of the collector. Personally I never had issues jumping on a series late in the run but back before Marvel and DC did their rebooting there were LOTS of collectors, even on the old CPG forum, that said outright they didn't like jumping on a series late in a run. None of the reasons made sense to me but then again we are in the Tide Pod eating generation now. Same with variants. People are buying them so the big two, mostly, keep publishing them.
Now, I don't let the publishers off the hook though. I doubt the bean counters at Marvel and DC really have any clue just what the real numbers are on most, if not all of their books because they fluff them up with variants and reboots. Since they listen to the bean counters more than anything else they really have no clue what sells, what new ideas are working, and so forth.
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2378
2/26/2018
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Several good points Oxbladder but I can't get past, "...Tide Pod eating generation now?" LOL
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kds_comics Posts: 652
3/1/2018
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Starting at numbers ones? Again? Anyone keeping score? Does this make four or five times in ten years? More? You have to be kidding me. Maybe they could write some decent stories with decent art - yeah - quality -yeah - that might do it!!!
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/2/2018
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kds_comics wrote:
Starting at numbers ones? Again? Anyone keeping score? Does this make four or five times in ten years? More? You have to be kidding me. Maybe they could write some decent stories with decent art - yeah - quality -yeah - that might do it!!!
Four to DC's three. They are doing exactly what the market wanted. Bringing the same old, same old back. Nowadays changes at the big two mean the restart series at #1 .... until a big legacy number is being reached. Both companies have been doing it for some time now. Marvel took more flac for it because they pushed old characters to the side to introduce/give the spotlight to new young characters. Now they take flac for bring the old characters back and starting over. They are the company the hater like to hate now. There were lots of good reads in the last set-up but people just wanted to pout and gripe instead. Oh well, those folks could always pop over to DC and praise them for rebooting their series or returning to legacy numbering in time to milk fans money for the two big 1000 issues. To me they are both the same, Marvel just pissed people off because they went off script in their last round of changes.
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expander Posts: 241
3/9/2018
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Although I do see how it would be a very convoluted process to ret-con the current continuity, I would like to read the new #1s to see how they go about it and whether the "new stories/origins" are as captivating or inspired as some of the originals.
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
3/10/2018
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Quit trying to second guess the collectors. Focus stories on the characters and letting the stories grow organically. Let the characters encounter a few things and then logically progress with the implications of their actions. Quit trying to make everything some event. If the sales don't sustain themselves on stories that progress logically, then shut the doors and quit publishing. The writers are just lazy. The publishers are idiots. What's next? A glaucous Hulk? The Fulvous Goblin?
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+1
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rsantos Posts: 5
3/11/2018
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DC gets most of my money these days. The only Marvel title I read is Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows. I enjoy it because it actually feels like I'm reading about the Spider-Man I once knew and it's a progression, not a step backwards. Reboots have made Marvel into some schizophrenic company. What exactly was the purpose of "Legacy" now that "Fresh Start" is going to happen? What was the purpose of "All-New, All Different", "Generations", and "Marvel NOW"? Investing my time and money into something that isn't going to be around for more than a year or two is exhausting.
edited by rsantos on 3/12/2018
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+1
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Guest
3/12/2018
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If anyone took a loo at the Previews this month. It is not a reboot as everyone is saying. Legacy numbering stays for some titles, some titles are gone, others keep rolling on. There are few #1's. Unless they plan on more over the next few months all the whining is pretty much typical ranting of a community that abhors change of any type.
Defiant1 they HAVE TO second guess collectors because if they don't they will never find the formula to grow the community. You have to understand that this community hates change but the only way they have managed to change the medium is to force it. If you think back to all the big famous story arcs it the writers and artists bought about changes sometimes organically but sometimes not. It is those changes though that left the lasting impression and, when looking back, are the few stories of that era that were actually loved everything else was fodder. Writers are not lazy they are trying to work within the confines of not appearing to force change on a reader but work with the elements they have. I am no Dan Slott fan but the Red Goblin is an interesting progression of the Osborne character. Leaving out the ridiculous concept of him being alive what is wrong with a playing out the thought "what would happen if one of Spidey's biggest enemies got a hold of symbiote tech?" While I thought the return of Osbourne was stupid I will say that they have made him even more devious and evil than he was before and with symbiote tech ... could be epic. Yes they can dial down the event stuff but events usually happened because the creative groups got together and steered their various stories that way. It has been a natural progression since fans made the overall continuity a major point back in the late 70's and early 80's. At this point though it has gotten out of hand at both companies. It is more visible at Marvel because they traditionally do one or two Marvel U events a year. DC does their events regularly though to though it is usually only marrying a few titles together.
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/12/2018
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Freaking stupid ... that post above is mine this site doesn't want to keep one logged in for more than a few minutes. > I have to go through a ridiculous procedure to log in every time and if I take more than 10 minutes on a post it logs me out. Very frustrating.
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Ronbatman Administrator Posts: 2378
3/12/2018
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When you log in for the first time, click the "keep me logged in" box. That should take care of the logging out issue.
Change is the common element to all of the great stories. Something new happens, a fresh story perspective, a new artist, a new character, a shift in a character are all versions of change. I love that kind of stuff. The collector frustration is the #1 lather, rinse, repeat cycle. But how do comic publishers get our attention without rebooting?
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Oxbladder Posts: 487
3/12/2018
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Well collector's are fickle things. On a previous version of this board there were a number of folks that admitted they didn't like picking up a title that was well into the run. They never really gave a good reason. So that was part of why the reboots cycle at DC and Marvel started. Plus the bean counters at both companies saw it was great for numbers.
Now, they seem to have revised history and don't seem to have a problem with legacy numbers.
The only things consistent about collectors is they, in general, don't have anything nice to say about comics from the past 20-30 years (EVERYTHING before that is brilliant though) and everything wrong with comics now (and in the past) is due to the publishers and nothing to do with them. You wanna know why "lather, rinse, repeat" is done? Why there are variants? Look in the mirror. Oh and this myth the books from X previous era were significantly better than X .... it revisionist history at its finest. That history is what collectors hold onto with a death grip and make it very, very hard for publishers to be able to deliver more than lather, rinse repeat.
As for log in issues, it is only the forum that gives me issues. I cannot log in at all, on any computer on any platform any browser, I have to go to the forum then press the login option at the top of the forum that kicks me to the main log in screen. There I am already logged in and I navigate back to the forum. Where if I spend about ten minutes typing in a response then I get logged out.
edited by oxbladder on 3/12/2018
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Guest
3/12/2018
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I shouldn't have to click a checkbox to stay logged in. I'm sure it just adds a persistent cookie. The cookie it adds when I log in should last through a normal session. Cookies are going to get flushed. I log out of Twitter & Facebook by deleting cookies. It's faster doing that with a web developer plugin than it is clicking "log out". It also deletes everything. Thankfully, I haven't been logged out here in awhile. It has happened, just not recently.
Regarding whether to second guess the consumer or not... second guessing will fail almost 100% of the time in the long run. It has been failing for 20 years. The industry needs to quit worrying about sales lost to the secondary market.The money made on back issues is additional cash flow for stores to aggressively order new product in hopes of having adequate stock on the next hot comic. The publishers want to predict what will be hot so that they get heavy sell through on every comic. The end result is that none of it is special and the consumer quits caring about the next event.
If Marvel focused on stories and just secretly dropped in a good or heavy impact story about some obscure character like "It, the Living Colossus" kicking Iron Man's rear, the comic would catch everyone's attention trying to figure out who he was. Dead back issues would generate revenue for the stores and stores would be buying extra of the storyline because the consumer would want to see how it unfolded. Sometimes I think the teasers in Previews give readers a better excuse to not buy the product.
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Defiant1 Posts: 720
3/12/2018
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Ha! It logged me out too. 1st time in awhile.
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